My exposures to wind turbines as a hiker have been mainly positive. I encountered them on a wind-swept hill top while hiking across Spain and while on a day hike in California. Now, they can be spotted in the southern tier of NY State. I recently read that the Finger Lakes Trail Conference takes a neutral stand toward them – not wanting to interfere with the wishes of their varied stakeholders, who range from hikers preferring a wilderness view scape to landowners who may be able to keep their land out of developers hands by allowing wind turbines. In contrast the Appalachian Trail Conservancy has been proactive in objecting to wind turbines within view from the AT. I’m in favor of them as an alternative energy source and as a hiker I don’t mind their intrusion. My only concern has been for the birds that are impacted by collisions with the blades or towers.
Here’s another view. Mary St. George recently wrote Whoa ! Blow Me Away! about her reaction to wind turbines. What is your opinion?
I spent a lot of time working in Ireland and Scotland last year where wind farms are common. I didn’t see the landscape before the wind farms, but I thought they added rather than detracted from the beauty. I would much prefer a wind farm to another fossil fuel or nuclear power plant.
In this area, why can’t we construct a large wind farm in Lake Ontario? We can put them far enough from shore so they aren’t visible. They would be more expensive to build and maintain, but the wind would be steady.
Personally, I’m all in favor of wind turbines – there’s absolutely no question that we need to explore and expand ways of tapping into renewable energy sources – but there is a legitimate concern regarding migrating birds.
Research into migration patterns is a vitally important step before turbines are set up, possibly cause devastation to a very precious part of our world.
I AM DEFINITELY AGAINST WIND POWER AS A TYPE OF ALTERNATE ENERGY. I WOULD NOT LIVE NEAR ONE AND WOULD NOT SUBJECT ANYONE ELSE TO THE NOISE, LIGHTS, CLUTTER AND HEALTH PROBLEMS THEY IMPOSE. THIS DOES NOT EVEN CONSIDER THE NEGATIVE EFFECT THAT THEY WILL HAVE ON BIRDS AND WILDLIFE, NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND CAN DISPUTE THAT. IT DOES NOT TAKE A ROCKET SCIENTIST! I FEEL THAT WE ARE JUST BEING TOLD THEY ARE COMING, SOME ARE HERE, AND KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! IT IS A GET RICH QUICK SCHEME FOR SOME DEVELOPER WHO DOES NOT LIVE IN NEW YORK AND CARES EVEN LESS. IF THEY WERE ALL THAT GOOD, WE WOULD HAVE HAD THEM YEARS AGO. I GUESS THAT REAL CONSERVATION IS TOO DIFFICULT FOR MOST PEOPLE TO DO, SO WE MUST PUT UP WITH THIS TYPE OF ATROCITY. I VOTE, NO WIND, NO WAY! BY THE WAY, I HAVE NOT HEARD OF ANYONE’S POWER BILL DECREASING WITH THE INCREASE OF ALL THIS ADDITIONAL ENERGY, STRANGE?
I’m not that familiar with the health problems they impose as the previous writer stated and would be interested to compare those concerns with other form of power energy health concerns!!. I personnaly do find them attracting but I am also worried about the migrating birds. I think that we have the technology and knowledge to figure their pattern. Hopefully further studies will be done to protect them.
I use to live in California where wind farms are very common. Personally, I find them very beautiful – they were even featured on post cards, so I don’t understand why they would lower property value. I wouldn’t mind having them in my back yard.
As for the health problems – I’m not sure what Pat is talking about. I also would also like to compare the health impact with that of other power sources.
I know in CA they would have to conduct studies about bird flight patters before the turbines could go up. Usually it was just a matter of placing them at a height over the typical altitude of regional birds. I had never personally seen a bird hit a wind turbine, nor seen any dead birds at the base of one – so I would guess the method works at least to some degree.
Simple 72% of wind turbine construction is by the tax payer. They ruin property, kill birds, encourage the burning of dirty coal, buy there selling of the green credits. This scam is another improved Enron and our politicians have been bought. It is time to go solar and get off the grid so we can not be controlled by cooperations who are selling this under the green banner. For the cost of a few turbines we can but in met nae digester’s. How aboout pellet plants to convert lawn waste and other materials in to fuel to heat our homes. What is sold under the Green banner is about green money not about the planet.
We all want to believe that alternative energy sources will allow us to avoid changing our comfortable lifestyles. So we are hopeful that the promises made by investment bankers and foreign developers are true. I’m sorry to have to break it to you: they are in business to make a profit. They could care less about the environment. As Gerry pointed out, the current energy policy that makes industrial wind ‘farm’ development so profitable was cooked up by Vice President Cheney (not exactly a champion of the environment) and Ken Lay, while he was head of Enron and before he became a convicted felon. Enron owned, and still owns, FPL that was the largest owner of industrial wind installations. The policy they secretly negotiated and is still in place DID NOT include any requirement that these things actually reduce our carbon footprint. And they don’t.
It’s one thing to hike within sight of these structures the size of a forty story building (and getting bigger every year). It’s another to live next to one. The cluster of human health problems associated with them is now called Vibro-Acoustic Disease and has caused more than one family to abandon their home, unable to sell it and unable to live in it.
Calling them ‘farms’ is an insult to those of use who live on farms and consider ourselves stewards of the land. Each ‘farm’ consists of miles and miles of forty foot wide construction roads slashed through the woods and fields. These things are huge industrial structures. And while you might find them pleasing to look at, they undeniably transform a pastoral landscape into an industrialized food chopper ready to mince raptors, bats, and migrating birds.
We rural areas already supply you urban folks with raw materials, most of your energy, and quiet places for you to vacation. We’ve given enough. If you want to avoid conservation or power plants in your neighborhood, fine, but don’t ruin what little peace and quiet we have left in the vain hope that you will somehow solve the energy crisis and global warming by filling the pockets of the fat cats. It aint’ gonna happen.
And in the meantime, the problem they are supposed to be solving gets worse and worse, while the money available to address the problem gets wasted.
For those of you wondering about The Vibroaccoustic disease, here is an article I did find: http://www.wind-watch.org/news/?p=5115
As for the 72% of wind turbine construction that is paid for by the tax payer, i consider that well spent.
Vibroaccoustic disease what a joke! I live in a noise smelly jungle (bronx ny) and your concerned about NOISE, LIGHTS, CLUTTER. Sound like a bunch of cry babies to me. To burn any thing for electric engery vs wind ill pick the wind! For those who cant take the low frequency noise try living in the bronx.
And as for birds hitting the blades i call the natural selection.
WIND, WIND, WEEEEEEEEE
I would be willing to bet everything I own that if you asked every NY resident whether or not they would like to help reduce our countries dependence on foreign oil, create jobs, and have a cleaner energy source than burning fossil fuels that 99% of you would say YES.
Some of these same people who would say YES are hypocrites. Luckily, they make up a small misinformed percentage of the population. –unfortunately they are usually the ones that are most outspoken, post the blogs and their anti-wind comments are the ones that are printed by the local paper, and often they are most loudly heard by local governments and local residents. You can classify most of them as NIMBYs with far too much time on their hands.
As with any type of new development, whether it’s a residential subdivision, a commercial shopping center, industrial park, school, etc., there is always somebody against it, regardless of the zoning, or local demand. More often than not they are the most misinformed in the crowd and stand to gain the least when a new development is proposed –you all know what I mean.
Wind is not a perfect source of energy. Wind alone will not eliminate our countries dependence on foreign oil. Nobody ever claimed it was or would. Anti-wind websites like Schoharie Valley Watch (SVW) claim “we support a well-defined regional energy policy that highlights the use of solar, geothermal and other environmentally sound and sustainable technologies”. Where is this policy?? Are they drafting it??? I would love to see what they suggest!!!!!! They are against wind as a renewable energy source so what do they suggest in its place?????? We have to do something. If they have all the answers why don’t they share them????
SVW suggests using solar energy. I think solar energy is great and agree that we need to see more of it. Does anyone at SVW realize that to create just a 10 MW solar farm (the equivalent of just 5 wind turbines) that you need 100+ acres of flat, shade free land close to transmission lines????????? –how many land parcels do you think fit this requirement in the rolling hills of upstate New York?????? Do they realize that a solar farm this size will cost over $60,000,000 to build??? Do they realize this will create fewer jobs than a comparably sized wind farm??? Do they realize that because of these tremendous development costs that the landowner(s) will see far less $$$ for their property (both lease and purchase) than they would for a commercial or residential development??? Even an agricultural use would pay better than a solar lease in most cases!!! On top of that, most of the properties that fit this requirement are Farmland Preserved!!! Now what?????–this is why there are very few solar farms on the east coast and there are none of any substantial size.
SVW and the others go on to say that a wind turbine housing has “hundreds of gallons of oil and anti-freeze that can leak creating an environmental disaster” How do some of these people heat their homes??? Do they realize how many people in NY have a buried underground storage tank with either 550 or 1,000 gallons of home heating oil in it!!!!!!!!!!!! –most of which are leaking right now directly into the ground water!!!!!!!!! I know first hand how many leak as I used to be an env consultant extracting these USTs daily.
They make claims that “wind turbines kill bats, birds, and affect the migration patterns” Do they realize cats & buildings kill far more birds annually??? Do they realize that all wind developers are required by the state to go through rigorous bird migration and env impact studies before a wind farm is ever approved?? There have been many projects simply not built because of this fact –even when a town was completely in favor!! –it’s also convenient that they never mention how many jobs or billable hours these studies create for the local env & engineering firms!!!!!
They claim that very few jobs are actually created when a wind farm is constructed. This is simply a lie. But even if it was true, isn’t the creation of just one job a hell of a lot better than none in this economy when companies are laying people off left and right!!!!!!!!!!! How many jobs are anti-wind activists creating???? Or they say these jobs are only temporary or these people are highly specialized and the workers are imported into the region. So what if they are!!! Where are these workers going to eat??? Where are they going to buy supplies and equipment??? Where do they sleep??? –you don’t think this will help our local inns, restaurants, hardware stores, contractors etc.???? These projects take years to complete and these anti-wind groups are directly responsible for depriving many local business owners from increasing their annual revenues. I don’t understand how people can be so short sighted.
I love how they say that wind farms decrease local property values. What is this based on?? I am a licensed realtor in several states and I grew up within ten miles of a wind farm in PA. I have never seen any evidence to support this. I do not understand why people think a wind farm would negatively impact the local overall property values. Are you going to tell me that every person that purchased a home in Schoharie County did so because of the magnificent views??? That is BS!!!! Are people going to turn down a great job opportunity anywhere because they have to drive by a wind farm daily???????
90% of the people in rural areas have been there for generations. Most of these upstate counties will never see a strong real estate demand in our lifetime to begin with! Ever hear the phrase “location, location, location’?? Supply, employment, great schools, shopping and convenience drive property prices –not views of mountains!!!!!!!!!!! Have you ever heard of someone’s taxes going up because they had a nice view??? Or going down because they didn’t have a view????? Mountain views only add a premium to a property. It doesn’t impact its overall value – and this added premium is only valuable for a small number of people that are willing to pay for it!!! Not only that, not everyone dislikes the look of wind turbines, and most could care less that there were turbines in that view -especially from a distance!!! The only way I can see a turbine negatively impacting a homeowner’s house value is if one were built in their backyard close to the house. –but today’s manufacturer requirements and local setback ordinances do not let this happen!!!!! Setbacks are typically at least 1500’ from a permanent residence.
If anything, you can make a very strong argument that turbines increase land values considerably. 99% of the land leased by wind developers is undevelopable in the first place because of topography, and lack of public utilities!!!! For example, farmer Jones has a 200 acre parcel in upstate NY that has rolling terrain and is largely undevelopable. What is this land worth? Well if you look at what land is currently trading for in that area (there are very few transactions annually in this area to begin with due to lack of demand and the fact that this type of land isn’t desirable to most people except for hunters) you may get an approx value of $3,000 per acre or $600,000. Farmer Jones just signed a lease with a wind developer and his property can accommodate 4 wind turbines. This lease produces an annual income for the farmer equal to about $7,000 -$15,000+ per turbine or $28,000 to $60,000 per year. Say it produces $30,000 per year. Farmer Jones wants to sell his property with the wind leases. Well his property is still worth at least $600,000, but now the property is producing income. If you apply a modest 8% capitalization rate (this is real estate 101) to this source of income, the 5 or 6 acres that the 4 wind turbines sit on has added $375,000 in value plus the $600,000 = $975,000!!!! Farmer Jones just increased his property value 62% for doing nothing!!!! 97% of his land remained untouched by the wind farm developer!!!!! A large network of real estate investors (including myself) will gladly buy properties with wind farm leases on them. It’s the closest thing to guaranteed income over 25+ years I know of!!!!!!!!!! –How can you tell me this is not good for the local economy??!!
Any study, editorial or report that was done in the past 5-6 years regarding wind farms and the effect on property values is completely meaningless. The real estate market and the economy have steadily declined during that time period. If you show me a report that indicates a decline in values (I am yet to see one) how can you prove to me or anyone else that a value decline is due to a wind farm and not the overall declining of the real estate market???? YOU CANNOT. Yet everybody against wind farms fails to mention this.
Wind farm haters claim that wind farm developers will clear cut acres of trees and create large clear cut patches on the mountains. Have they ever been to a wind farm??? Do they realize a wind turbine occupies less than 1 acre??? Do they realize the maintenance roads utilize existing roads whenever possible?? How many acres do they think are needed to harvest just a few inches of coal veins under the surface???? -Hundreds of thousands annually. Do they suggest we clear cut hundreds of acres for solar farms??? How eco-friendly is that??? Are no trees cut to install geothermal wells??????? I think not. How many acres were cut to put in railroad tracks, highways, power lines, shopping malls, etc?? How many trees were cut to build the homes they live in??? Give me a break. Or do they suggest we put solar panels on every house, industrial building & office park?? Good idea right??? It helps, but there are very few buildings in NY large enough to produce even 1 MW of electricity. Even fewer close to the grid. And if the buildings are that large, all the electricity they create is needed to power the building itself in the first place!!!!!!!!!!! There is little net gain!!!!!
New York is blessed with tremendous wind resource potential and we should be taking advantage of it. If you are a landowner considering signing a lease, don’t let a few backward, wind hating idiots that stand to gain nothing from a lease deter you from signing. Educate yourself. Get all the facts. They claim to be trying to preserve the rural character of the community. That is B.S. These people are selfish and not thinking of anyone but their selves. As I said above, wind energy alone will not eliminate our countries dependence on foreign oil. We need a combination of wind, solar, natural gas, coal, hydroelectric, nuclear, and bio fuels. We currently purchase most of our oil from foreign countries that hate our guts. I am tired of seeing friends, family and colleagues go over seas to fight a war that is largely over oil -especially when we see very little return for our efforts. Oil prices are down now, but you can bet your ass they will go back up. Even if wind only reduced our foreign oil dependence by 1% I think it’s better than standing there and doing nothing. So I ask you anti-wind activists, what the hell are you doing to help this country rid itself from foreign oil dependence??
We buy wind power via the grid. An extra couple of cents a kilowatt hour, maybe $10 a month extra. I think it’s worth it. I’ve been around the area of Fenner and the Tug Hill turbines while hunting. I have no issues with these turbines. I think we must do everything we can to get away from fossil fuels. As soon as we can. We have put this off far too long as a nation.
I’ve had a study done for my home for a PV electric system. I was told because of being near Lake Ontario the cloud cover makes the system power output for about 1,000 hours annually and not eligible for the NYSERDA rebate because of the trees adjacent my property to the south. It would take better than 25 years for me to save enough electricity without the rebate. If it worked for the 1,000 hours. I guess my point is that solar doesn’t work all that well everywhere, either.
The Truth is full of so much hyperbole and misinformation I don’t even know where to start. Industrial wind _does_ NOT reduce our dependence on foreign oil – foreign oil is not used to generate electricity. That’s been proven. Period, so stop spreading crap.
The example on real estate does not address non leaseholders — obviously that’s where the property values decline.
60,000 turbines worldwide and not a single conventional power plan decommissioned – what’s your response to that?
My response to that is:
Wind turbines CAN replace coal buringing power plants that make electricity and polute our environment. And as more car use electricity, they can replace the use of oil.
60,000 turbines and not a single conventional power plant decommissioned is because the human population and it’s use of power keeps increasing at an ever increasing rate so the demand for power is growing faster than the commissioning of wind turbines.
Your facts are CRAP – that’s my response.
My facts are facts – your statements are wishful thinking. You give a false choice – wind or coal. In fact wind hasn’t and won’t make a dent and isn’t replacing anything. You’ve given up your pristine natural areas to an industrial park for nothing gained in return. Sure, feel good about it – but don’t go around claiming it’s wind or coal.
In europe wind hasn’t reduced a single atom of GHG.
43GW of industrial wind and you still think that you haven’t had enough wind in place to decommision a single 500MW coal plant.
That’s enough wind power (by Komanoff’s math) to decommission 100 coal plants – yet strangely enough not a single one has been decommissioned. And more coal plants are being built.
When then do you believe that a single coal plant will finally be shut down because of wind? After how many more GW of wind power will it take to just stop one coal plant from burning?
Isn’t that the goal wind _replaces_ coal and nuclear? Just keep the figure in mind: 43GW installed, not a single coal plant shut down. Note: we haven’t grown 43GW of demand not even close. In fact net generation (demand) declined from 2007 to 2008 and declined in the industrial sector in 2006.
Wind does not replace coal so it’s a false choice – and that’s the real crap – industrializing the forests for nothing but feel good symbolism.
I’m sorry but I have a phobia with these things, they scare the crap out of me! I will NEVER live by one. I can’t even DRIVE by one without having a panic attack!